Official Political Discussion Thread



  • Sorry John Kelly this doesn’t clear you of complicity. You like the others who have 1st hand knowledge & aren’t screaming High Treason every time djt is mentioned are guilty. Guilty of aiding & abetting the Traitor to the USA & it’s citizens, djt.



  • @zapjb said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    @miserly said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    i have said this for the last 2.5 years. the dems have no one to put up against trump that can capture the middle. they are idiots for going farther left and basically handing trump another win. bloomberg ha been my choice since 2016. i think he is the only one that can do that.

    Now that the Russians have tanked Biden. I agree Bloomberg has the best chance to knock off the orange fart.

    Don’t blame the Russian or the Republicans. We did this. We could not find anyone who can win in general and the base has gone rabid toward the left. Reverse tea party except nobody is unhappy enough to join them.



  • @miserly
    There’s enough blame to go all around.



  • Barr says that Trump shouldn’t tell everyone what crimes Barr is doing for him, it makes it harder for Barr to do them.



  • To the great not surprise of everyone, Mitch McConnel introduces the “you can only choose a Supreme Court Justice in an election year if the President is a Republican” rule*.

    • It’s just a subset of his “you can only choose a Supreme Court Justice if the President is a Republican” rule.


  • The dems need to win the senate for a respite from this madness.



  • @zapjb said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    The dems need to win the senate for a respite from this madness.

    The SENATE?! If you guys don’t come up with a presidential candidate who doesn’t want to take health care from 180 million citizens and give it to illegal immigrants, you’re going to lose the house. I’m surprised anybody seriously thinks the democrats can win the senate.



  • State owned radio in Kansas City, Russian state that is.

    /probably coming soon to much of the midwest/mountain states.



  • I mean, we are the greatest country in the world, right? So why can’t we give all our citizens healthcare?


  • 500 Club

    @kamal Are you serious or being sarcastic? People from Europe, the Middle East and Canada come to the U.S. for care they’d have to wait for in their home countries. Americans don’t like to wait.



  • @my4mainecoons said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    @kamal Are you serious or being sarcastic? People from Europe, the Middle East and Canada come to the U.S. for care they’d have to wait for in their home countries. Americans don’t like to wait.

    Both actually.

    Not having health care at all means you have a pretty long wait for health care.

    We’re the greatest country in the world, right? So we can’t do it better than all those places because…?

    How we treat people in need is something that has measured humanity since before the Bible. {pretty much all religions have this concept}
    "He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    We should do it because it’s the right thing to do.


  • 500 Club

    @kamal Sure its the right thing to do but who’s going to pay for it? To do so means taking from those who have and we don’t like that. A few years ago I had to pay a “penalty” for having health insurance that provided benefits superior to the ACC. I wasn’t happy losing money for ACC but didn’t have any choice in the matter.

    e.g. We didn’t have prescription coverage for Medicare recipients until #43. Until then people couldn’t afford meds or got cheaper ones or went to Canada, etc. Pretty sure prescription coverage is a lot of money. How do you think it would go if you tried to take that benefit away and instead provide basic health care to un-insured? You’d get voted out of office.

    People without insurance go to the Emergency Room for care. They can’t pay the pill. The hospital takes the loss. People with Medicaid go to the Emergency Room for care because there’s no incentive for them to go to their doctor’s office. Medicaid will pick up the cost. If they didn’t the hospital would take the loss. They still take the loss since Medicaid reimburses less than the cost of care.



  • I’m sick of the who going to pay for it arguments. The US is $23 trillion in debt. It’s never going to be paid off. Just add it to the tab. And help the poor. And if some lazies get in on it sfw suck it up buttercup.



  • @my4mainecoons said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    @kamal Sure its the right thing to do but who’s going to pay for it? To do so means taking from those who have and we don’t like that. A few years ago I had to pay a “penalty” for having health insurance that provided benefits superior to the ACC. I wasn’t happy losing money for ACC but didn’t have any choice in the matter.

    e.g. We didn’t have prescription coverage for Medicare recipients until #43. Until then people couldn’t afford meds or got cheaper ones or went to Canada, etc. Pretty sure prescription coverage is a lot of money. How do you think it would go if you tried to take that benefit away and instead provide basic health care to un-insured? You’d get voted out of office.

    People without insurance go to the Emergency Room for care. They can’t pay the pill. The hospital takes the loss. People with Medicaid go to the Emergency Room for care because there’s no incentive for them to go to their doctor’s office. Medicaid will pick up the cost. If they didn’t the hospital would take the loss. They still take the loss since Medicaid reimburses less than the cost of care.

    Giving everyone healthcare is actually less expensive than we currently pay to not give everyone healthcare.

    Here’s the cost of universal healthcare. Since the author was was the deputy director of President Bush’s National Economic Council, I doubt he is intentionally under-estimating the cost of it. The TL. DR :
    "(M4A), would, under conservative estimates, increase federal budget commitments by approximately $32.6 trillion during its first 10 years of full implementation (2022–2031), assuming enactment in 2018. "

    So it’s 3.26 trillion a year for ten years of universal health care. Seems like a lot right? How could we possibly afford that?

    Well, we spent 3.6 trillion for the current system in 2018. Here’s the PDF from the government itself. So even without inflation, we will be spending 36 trillion over the next ten years.

    36 trillion (current system) - 32.6 trillion (universal healthcare) = 3.4 trillion saved. So how can we afford not to do that? We can save 3.4 trillion and give everyone health care, and then if we want spend that 3.4 trillion to give everyone even better healthcare.

    Edit: One reason why it’s cheaper is that people without insurance go to the ER for non-emergency care, and ER level care is expensive.


  • 500 Club

    Unfortunately Medicaid has shown us that giving people insurance doesn’t keep them from going to the Emergency Room for non-emergent care.



  • @my4mainecoons said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    Unfortunately Medicaid has shown us that giving people insurance doesn’t keep them from going to the Emergency Room for non-emergent care.

    Emergency rooms are far more economically burdened by the uninsured & the under-insured vs those having Medicaid.



  • @my4mainecoons said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    Unfortunately Medicaid has shown us that giving people insurance doesn’t keep them from going to the Emergency Room for non-emergent care.

    Well, that would be built into the "(M4A), would, under conservative estimates, increase federal budget commitments by approximately $32.6 trillion during its first 10 years of full implementation (2022–2031), assuming enactment in 2018. " since the study author is a Bush official, wouldn’t it?

    Even with that, there is $340 billion a year savings.



  • That cost estimate for Medicare for all comes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercatus_Center . Lest anyone think they are a liberal organization, Charles Koch sits on their board of directors and two other members of the board are C level execs from Koch Industries.


  • 500 Club

    @zapjb That may be but my point was that having insurance doesn’t prevent inappropriate use of emergency rooms.

    The economic burden caused by Medicaid recipients using the Emergency Room is less because Medicaid reimburses the hospital. They reimburse less than the cost but there’s reimbursement.

    I don’t have numbers but I suspect that people without insurance avoid the emergency room because of the cost vs. people with Medicaid don’t think as much about the cost because they presume that Medicaid will cover it. I don’t know how to dis-incentive-ize inappropriate Emergency Room use other than the passive aggressive approach, i.e. the person with the sore throat sits in the Emergency Room for 4 hours vs. if they’d gone to their doctor’s office. I don’t know about other states but in my state everyone with Medicaid has to select a primary care practice.


  • 500 Club

    HERE’S WHERE FUNDING FOR M4A WOULD COME FROM
    In 2017 the US paid 17.9% of the $19.61 trillion GNP for healthcare.
    That’s about $3.5 trillion. M4A is estimated to cost $28-32 trillion
    over a decade or $2.8-3.2 trillion per year. Considering the COLA
    (Cost Of Living Adjustment), to me that sounds like no worse
    than a wash and probably a net gain.
    2018 UPDATE
    U.S. health care spending grew 4.6 percent in 2018, reaching
    $3.6 trillion or $11,172 per person. As a share of the nation’s
    Gross Domestic Product, health spending accounted for 17.7 percent.
    In 2018, the number of people in the United States without
    health insurance rose to 27.5 million. Under M4A EVERY
    US citizen would be covered.

    CMS-dot-gov Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services



  • @my4mainecoons said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    @zapjb That may be but my point was that having insurance doesn’t prevent inappropriate use of emergency rooms.

    The economic burden caused by Medicaid recipients using the Emergency Room is less because Medicaid reimburses the hospital. They reimburse less than the cost but there’s reimbursement.

    I don’t have numbers but I suspect that people without insurance avoid the emergency room because of the cost vs. people with Medicaid don’t think as much about the cost because they presume that Medicaid will cover it. I don’t know how to dis-incentive-ize inappropriate Emergency Room use other than the passive aggressive approach, i.e. the person with the sore throat sits in the Emergency Room for 4 hours vs. if they’d gone to their doctor’s office. I don’t know about other states but in my state everyone with Medicaid has to select a primary care practice.

    The 340 billion saved per year under universal healthcare provides a lot of cushion, roughly a thousand dollars a person per year.



  • @my4mainecoons said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    @zapjb That may be but my point was that having insurance doesn’t prevent inappropriate use of emergency rooms…

    My point fuck the cost just bury it like the national debt. And so what if people don’t use emergency rooms appropriately money wise that is. Take the shaming out of free medical care, provide it to all who want it & be decent human beings. A society that doesn’t care or cares less & less about those in need is shitty indeed. Unless the US starts paying down big chunks of the national debt. The argument of where’s the money to pay for this is hypocritical thus meaningless.



  • We’re clearly not the greatest if we can’t make it work.



  • We don’t have the greatest healthcare in the world.

    We’re not even close. We’re 37th in the world. Ahead of us are most all of those countries that have universal healthcare.



  • @kamal said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    Giving everyone healthcare is actually less expensive than we currently pay to not give everyone healthcare.

    Between Medicare, Medicaid and Obamacare, who are these people without healthcare?


  • 500 Club

    @atikovi To qualify for Medicare you have to be disabled or over 65. To qualify for Medicaid your income has to be at or below the Federal Poverty level. Obamacare was intended to help people who make too much money for Medicaid but don’t work for an employer that subsidizes insurance. While Obamacare helped a lot of people there are still people who make too much money for Medicaid but Obamacare policies are too expensive for them. $500/mo is a rough estimate of a policy for one person depending on income and region of the country.

    My state tried single payer system and had to give it up.

    From Wikipedia: *In 2011, the Vermont state government enacted a law functionally establishing the first state-level single-payer health care system in the United States. Green Mountain Care, established by the passage of H.202, creates a system in the state where Vermonters receive universal health care coverage as well as technological improvements to the existing system.

    On December 17, 2014, Vermont abandoned its plan for universal health care, citing the taxes required of smaller businesses within the state.*



  • @my4mainecoons said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    While Obamacare helped a lot of people there are still people who make too much money for Medicaid but Obamacare policies are too expensive for them. $500/mo is a rough estimate of a policy for one person depending on income and region of the country.

    They have subsidies for those people.


  • 500 Club

    @atikovi IDK about the subsidies. I just know about people who told me that they couldn’t afford Obamacare so chose to not have insurance.



  • I have an $850 BCBS policy and pay under $80 a month.


  • 500 Club

    @atikovi Again, I don’t have personal experience other than acquaintances telling me that it would cost them $600/mo to get Obamacare.



  • “If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn’t help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we’ve got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don’t want to do it.”

    ― Stephen Colbert

    Maybe we could try that.



  • @my4mainecoons said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    @atikovi Again, I don’t have personal experience other than acquaintances telling me that it would cost them $600/mo to get Obamacare.

    Frankly, if they make too much money to qualify for a subsidy, they make enough to pay $600/mo for an unsubsidized plan. Before Obamacare, I was paying more than that myself.



  • @kamal said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    “If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn’t help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we’ve got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don’t want to do it.”

    ― Stephen Colbert

    Maybe we could try that.

    QFT 100%


  • 500 Club

    Now for a little levity. CYE
    Gotta get me one-a-dem hats.😁

    PEOPLE REPELLENT



  • Trump takes his limo for a lap at Daytona.

    Well damn, if I had executive privilege, I’d want to see what that puppy will do, not just a parade lap.





  • Looking forward to shithead’s 2nd term? Debtors prisons will be wide-spread. Dissent will be less because people will have less time because they’ll working their asses off to remain free. There’s lot’s more goodies to come.


  • 500 Club

    1,100+ former prosecutors and other DOJ officials
    call on Attorney General Barr to resign.
    Since Jeffrey Epstein worked for Barr’s
    father under questionable circumstances,
    is he another member of the JE sex cult?

    PAST TIME FOR BARR TO RESIGN?


  • 500 Club

    Dolt 45 to Gestapo Barr
    ALL OF THEM! I AM THE CHOSEN ONE!
    YOU’RE MY CHOSEN SCUM! JUST DO IT!



  • https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(19)33019-3/fulltext#%20

    “Taking into account both the costs of coverage expansion and the savings that would be achieved through the Medicare for All Act, we calculate that a single-payer, universal health-care system is likely to lead to a 13% savings in national health-care expenditure, equivalent to more than US$450 billion annually (based on the value of the US$ in 2017). The entire system could be funded with less financial outlay than is incurred by employers and households paying for health-care premiums combined with existing government allocations. This shift to single-payer health care would provide the greatest relief to lower-income households. Furthermore, we estimate that ensuring health-care access for all Americans would save more than 68 000 lives and 1·73 million life-years every year compared with the status quo.”



  • And all we have to do to accomplish the above is take private insurance from 180 million Americans and put government in charge of everything. Yay, VA-quality care for the masses! Oh, and double income and corporate taxes. Oh, and it’s a pretty rosy guess that that will cover it.

    The best thing about these different plans is that every one of your candidates is all in on them. Or do I remember Klobuchar being somewhat conciliatory about it? Gabbard, too, seems to me she was a little more realistic, but of course she is a Putin puppet, so…



  • The study points to better outcome than the existing system. And saving over 1000 per year per person, which you could then spend on supplemental private insurance if you wanted, like a lot of universal insurance countries have, if you want better than the standard care.

    Personally I like an extra grand per person in my pockets to do what I want with.



  • Also socialism:
    Roads
    Schools
    Police
    Firefighters
    The military
    The mail system
    Your car (if it was made by a bailed out automaker)
    Food (farmers are very heavily subsidized)
    All the utilities for your house



  • @kamal So explain something to me, please. My employer gives me family insurance with low deductables and co-pays, amazing coverage, including dental, and my cost is about $3K per year. Plus, I get a $1K debit card to help cover the co-pays and deductables. M4A becomes a reality, so does my employer no longer have to provide care and will my taxes go up no more than $2K per year ( the net of my fees less the debit card) while providing the same coverage levels and I keep the same deductable and co-pay schedule?

    – Z –



  • Can Trump pardon everyone in San Quentin Prison, death row and all, and say “you can go home now.” ???


  • 500 Club

    @burgerwars said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    Can Trump pardon everyone in San Quentin Prison, death row and all, and say “you can go home now.” ???

    I know that is meant as sarcasm, but he can only pardon Federal crimes.
    So since San Quentin is a CA state prison, no. On the other hand, he can
    pardon presumptive Federal crimes, like Ford did for Nixon.



  • @fmb1
    djt is really sure he’ll win reelection. Otherwise he wouldn’t have started this pardon/clemency/commute parade before the election. But I do think shithead will wait to pardon Stone, Flynn, Manafort etc.


  • 500 Club

    @kamal said in Official Political Discussion Thread:

    The study points to better outcome than the existing system. And saving over 1000 per year per person, which you could then spend on supplemental private insurance if you wanted, like a lot of universal insurance countries have, if you want better than the standard care.

    Personally I like an extra grand per person in my pockets to do what I want with.

    You’ll NEVER get thru to the selfish a-holes that only
    think of themselves and will NEVER understand the
    the concept of “NOT ME, US” or “WE THE PEOPLE”.



  • @zapjb Next up on the list of pardons is El Chapo and Bernie Madoff.



  • @burgerwars
    If we had legal bookies who take bets on anything like in the UK. I’d put $20 on Maddoff being pardoned by djt. And if I could get 10to1 on El Chapo I’d put down another $20.


 

DMCA Policy

Looks like your connection to PhatWallet was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.